Comments on: Burned to the Ground http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/ Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:56:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Mary http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10477 Mary Fri, 04 Apr 2008 02:36:23 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10477 Robert, by using the term "implications" you are "implying" that you can fathom the mind of God. Why wouldn't He create angels and men with minds of their own? Why wouldn't He want to stand on His own merits, rather than be followed by a bunch of minions He'd created with no minds of their own, only a driven need to serve Him? Instead, He did create "man in His own image", yet in all fairness, He tipped things in a neutral favor by giving all of us old sin natures along with the will to choose between right and wrong. It really takes a detailed study of the Old and New Testaments to understand why He would do this, why He would create Lucifer...who was the highest of angels, who thought he could be better than God and as a result of that was banished to earth, renamed Satan, and who loves to deceive any and all who will look away from God and to him for the "truth". Hopefully I'll have time to address some of this in more detail on the blog, at a later date. I haven't had time to keep up with this poor blog this week, much less debate meanings of good and bad, holiness and evil, etc. Bethanie, fighting fires is part of my husband's job as a volunteer firefighter, but he's also had the odious task of helping remove the bodies of suicide victims, and responding to vehicle accidents with pretty seriously injured people. It is a lot to absorb. Someone needs to do it though, and dh seems to handle it okay. Robert, by using the term “implications” you are “implying” that you can fathom the mind of God. Why wouldn’t He create angels and men with minds of their own? Why wouldn’t He want to stand on His own merits, rather than be followed by a bunch of minions He’d created with no minds of their own, only a driven need to serve Him? Instead, He did create “man in His own image”, yet in all fairness, He tipped things in a neutral favor by giving all of us old sin natures along with the will to choose between right and wrong. It really takes a detailed study of the Old and New Testaments to understand why He would do this, why He would create Lucifer…who was the highest of angels, who thought he could be better than God and as a result of that was banished to earth, renamed Satan, and who loves to deceive any and all who will look away from God and to him for the “truth”. Hopefully I’ll have time to address some of this in more detail on the blog, at a later date. I haven’t had time to keep up with this poor blog this week, much less debate meanings of good and bad, holiness and evil, etc.

Bethanie, fighting fires is part of my husband’s job as a volunteer firefighter, but he’s also had the odious task of helping remove the bodies of suicide victims, and responding to vehicle accidents with pretty seriously injured people. It is a lot to absorb. Someone needs to do it though, and dh seems to handle it okay.

]]> By: Bethanie http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10467 Bethanie Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:25:28 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10467 how terrible. My husband was just thinking about joining our local volunteer fireman, but his buddy talked to him about his anxiety disorder and he decided against it in the end. <em>Bethanie's last blog post..<a href='http://the-desire-of-my-heart.blogspot.com/2006/10/meme.html'>Rerun= Meme</a></em> how terrible. My husband was just thinking about joining our local volunteer fireman, but his buddy talked to him about his anxiety disorder and he decided against it in the end.

Bethanie’s last blog post..Rerun= Meme

]]> By: Robert http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10364 Robert Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:40:54 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10364 Hi Mary, this is an interesting discussion. It seems to me, however, that you're having trouble grasping the implications of God as creator of all, a supposition I know you believe. These "powers of darkness" you describe, from whence did they come? If you answer "Lucifer," then the next obvious question is, from whence did Lucifer come? See, it all comes back to God, as creator of all. It's been my contention that Christians such as yourself cannot label anything evil as the word is properly understood, since it all originates with an omnibenevolent deity. Either you must: 1) Agree that God created evil, thus denying omnibenevolence; or 2) Agree that God is omnibenevolent, thus denying evil; or 3) Agree that there is another being, uncreated by God, who created evil; thus denying omnipotence. You wrote,<blockquote>If we believe that God created us, and that He allows all things to happen for our good…then we’re back to defining “good”.</blockquote>Well, not quite. Good would be defined as "all things that happen to us". Since things that happen to us could be anything, from winning the lottery to having our children drowned by a tsunami, there is no evil that happens to us (or anyone)--it's all good! Hi Mary, this is an interesting discussion. It seems to me, however, that you’re having trouble grasping the implications of God as creator of all, a supposition I know you believe.

These “powers of darkness” you describe, from whence did they come? If you answer “Lucifer,” then the next obvious question is, from whence did Lucifer come?

See, it all comes back to God, as creator of all. It’s been my contention that Christians such as yourself cannot label anything evil as the word is properly understood, since it all originates with an omnibenevolent deity. Either you must:

1) Agree that God created evil, thus denying omnibenevolence; or
2) Agree that God is omnibenevolent, thus denying evil; or
3) Agree that there is another being, uncreated by God, who created evil; thus denying omnipotence.

You wrote,

If we believe that God created us, and that He allows all things to happen for our good…then we’re back to defining “good”.

Well, not quite. Good would be defined as “all things that happen to us”. Since things that happen to us could be anything, from winning the lottery to having our children drowned by a tsunami, there is no evil that happens to us (or anyone)–it’s all good!

]]> By: Mary http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10356 Mary Tue, 01 Apr 2008 06:07:50 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10356 Hi Robert, Denying evil would be anti-Biblical, now wouldn't it? Considering the "powers of darkness" as described in the Bible which have been waging spiritual warfare and wreaking havoc on this earth since Lucifer fell from greatness and took to prowling the earth, "seeking whom he may devour". The Bible explains why there is evil and why God created us to choose between evil and good. We live in an evil world, and bad things happen as a result. If we believe that God created us, and that He allows all things to happen for our good...then we're back to defining "good". I happen to believe that our culture has a lot to learn about defining "good". Money, for instance, is not the best thing for most of us. Can you tell I don't buy into the "prosperity religion" philosophy? Nowhere in the Bible does God promise wealth, or people would be flocking to Him by the millions. He wants us to come to Him for the right reasons. To bring Him honor and glory and to recognize His sacrifice and our need for salvation, among other things. On the same note, hardships grow us into better people. It's a truly fascinating topic, and as much as I wish I could delve deeper right now, I've got to get some sleep! It's late o'clock here. :) Thanks, Holly, we just got them moved into a rental tonight. One week to the day later. The miracles continue to roll in, we're all so thankful for how God is gracing them out. Still, they haven't had a moment alone to crash, and they are truly craving all our prayers! Hi Robert,
Denying evil would be anti-Biblical, now wouldn’t it? Considering the “powers of darkness” as described in the Bible which have been waging spiritual warfare and wreaking havoc on this earth since Lucifer fell from greatness and took to prowling the earth, “seeking whom he may devour”. The Bible explains why there is evil and why God created us to choose between evil and good. We live in an evil world, and bad things happen as a result. If we believe that God created us, and that He allows all things to happen for our good…then we’re back to defining “good”. I happen to believe that our culture has a lot to learn about defining “good”. Money, for instance, is not the best thing for most of us. Can you tell I don’t buy into the “prosperity religion” philosophy? Nowhere in the Bible does God promise wealth, or people would be flocking to Him by the millions. He wants us to come to Him for the right reasons. To bring Him honor and glory and to recognize His sacrifice and our need for salvation, among other things.

On the same note, hardships grow us into better people. It’s a truly fascinating topic, and as much as I wish I could delve deeper right now, I’ve got to get some sleep! It’s late o’clock here. :)

Thanks, Holly, we just got them moved into a rental tonight. One week to the day later. The miracles continue to roll in, we’re all so thankful for how God is gracing them out. Still, they haven’t had a moment alone to crash, and they are truly craving all our prayers!

]]> By: Holly http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10353 Holly Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:56:39 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10353 So sorry to hear about this, Mary!!! <em>Holly's last blog post..<a href='http://seekingfaithfulness.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/deposed-of-my-throne-by-hrh-her-royal-highness/'>Deposed of my throne, by HRH (Her Royal Highness)</a></em> So sorry to hear about this, Mary!!!

Holly’s last blog post..Deposed of my throne, by HRH (Her Royal Highness)

]]> By: Robert http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10346 Robert Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:48:20 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10346 Hi Mary, no need to apologize, but your choice of words--calling the burned house "a tragedy"--struck me as odd considering that it was actually the work of an all-good, compassionate god. A fire, a tornado, an earthquake, a tsunami, a mass genocide--all indeed the Lord's work, which is, by definition, good. The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil">Problem of Evil</a> is a thorny one for religions like Christianity. Lately, it seems, Christians resolve it by essentially denying evil. For other Christians, the problem has led to <a href="http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/112">some reconsideration</a> of the nature of God. Hi Mary, no need to apologize, but your choice of words–calling the burned house “a tragedy”–struck me as odd considering that it was actually the work of an all-good, compassionate god.

A fire, a tornado, an earthquake, a tsunami, a mass genocide–all indeed the Lord’s work, which is, by definition, good.

The Problem of Evil is a thorny one for religions like Christianity. Lately, it seems, Christians resolve it by essentially denying evil.

For other Christians, the problem has led to some reconsideration of the nature of God.

]]> By: Mary http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10337 Mary Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:09:28 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10337 Hi Robert, I'm glad you stopped by. I'm also sorry that this perplexes you, as I very clearly stated that "God is good and His hand was all over this protecting and providing". Yes, He allows tragedies to happen, and I do firmly believe that "all things work together for good to them that love the Lord"...but He also says to rejoice with those that rejoice and to weep with those who weep. Our God is very compassionate, and as His people we can be no less. We may not understand it here on earth, but it is a comfort to know that all things are in His hands. This fire was indeed, a part of God's plan, and I have no doubt that greater good is coming of it right at this moment. The evidence is all around in the way He's moving to provide "exceeding abundantly above all we could ever ask or think"... I'm glad you let me know that you responded to my comment at MInTheGap's. I'll be looking forward to reading it. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here. Hi Robert, I’m glad you stopped by. I’m also sorry that this perplexes you, as I very clearly stated that “God is good and His hand was all over this protecting and providing”. Yes, He allows tragedies to happen, and I do firmly believe that “all things work together for good to them that love the Lord”…but He also says to rejoice with those that rejoice and to weep with those who weep. Our God is very compassionate, and as His people we can be no less.

We may not understand it here on earth, but it is a comfort to know that all things are in His hands. This fire was indeed, a part of God’s plan, and I have no doubt that greater good is coming of it right at this moment. The evidence is all around in the way He’s moving to provide “exceeding abundantly above all we could ever ask or think”…

I’m glad you let me know that you responded to my comment at MInTheGap’s. I’ll be looking forward to reading it. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here.

]]> By: Robert http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10335 Robert Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:40:00 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10335 Hi Mary, I came by way of <a href="http://www.minthegap.com/">MInTheGap</a> blog, where you responded to a comment of mine (I responded back). Since you're a Christian, I'm perplexed by your reaction to this tragedy. Shouldn't you be rejoicing? Everything that happens is accordance with God's plan; God's plan is all-good; Ergo, everything that happens is good. The fire that burned down the house, as a part of God's plan, must therefore be good. At the very least, you cannot make a value judgment on whether the burned house is a tragedy, since you don't know if it was actually part of God's plan and works to a greater good down the road. Hi Mary, I came by way of MInTheGap blog, where you responded to a comment of mine (I responded back).

Since you’re a Christian, I’m perplexed by your reaction to this tragedy. Shouldn’t you be rejoicing?

Everything that happens is accordance with God’s plan;
God’s plan is all-good;
Ergo, everything that happens is good.

The fire that burned down the house, as a part of God’s plan, must therefore be good.

At the very least, you cannot make a value judgment on whether the burned house is a tragedy, since you don’t know if it was actually part of God’s plan and works to a greater good down the road.

]]> By: Mary http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10333 Mary Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:05:49 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10333 Thank you, Geri. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think our community is pretty special, they've never hesitated in the past to throw fundraisers for children with cancer, or to help families deal with similar tragedies as what happened to my s&bil. Of course, it helps that they have children in the school system, and that they are well-liked and respected. People are going all out, it's awesome to behold. Thank you, Geri. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think our community is pretty special, they’ve never hesitated in the past to throw fundraisers for children with cancer, or to help families deal with similar tragedies as what happened to my s&bil. Of course, it helps that they have children in the school system, and that they are well-liked and respected. People are going all out, it’s awesome to behold.

]]> By: Geri http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10331 Geri Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:15:10 +0000 http://homesteepedhope.com/2008/03/24/burned-to-the-ground/#comment-10331 Wow! It's so nice to hear of communities that come together like that in time of crisis! I'm so glad to hear how well they are handling! Wow! It’s so nice to hear of communities that come together like that in time of crisis! I’m so glad to hear how well they are handling!

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