I’m going to have to ask that we close this topic for now.

He puts such nonsense in a book and you think this is intelligent? You have been bamboozled.

“We obviously disagree on what is or is not considered scientific.”

I do not think that you know what you are trying to talk about.

“I’m not a scientist, but … blah blah blah”

Suspicion confirmed.

“why would we not think that there is a Creator, designer, artist, and orderer behind the universe?”

Why indeed? Humans have obviously evolved to be superstitious and this is a really good example. Gods cause thunder and lightning. Gods cause the weather - let’s pray for rain (like a Georgia governor). Gods cause sickness - let’s pray for recovery.

Such “common sense” thinking that has evolved over the last 50,000 years is silly nonsense. Just because you “think” there is a god “behind” the universe does not make it so. “Appearance” of design is in the eye of the beholder, not reality.

“I appreciate your comments.”

Why do you “appreciate” someone pointing out your denial of reality?

Of course this is a really stupid “why” question. “Why” is the universe “uniform” instead of “non-uniform”? How many “non-uniform” universes have you observed? Why should anything be required to “keep” this universe “uniform”?

“Why should we assume that yesterday and today will be the same as tomorrow?”

Because all of our actual observations are consistent with this assumption. For example, the astronomical observations of evolving stars and galaxies over the last 14 billion years are consistent with unchanging laws of physics during that time.

“On what basis if not Genesis?”

Of course “Genesis” is irrelevant. If it agrees with observations, it is irrelevant. If it disagrees, it is wrong.

“The question is why.”

Unfortunately, even though humans have some compulsion to ask “why”, there are many questions for which there will never be a good answer. “Why” does this universe even exist? “Why” is the force of gravity just so? You are welcome to choose a silly religious answer, but that does not mean that that answer has any scientific or philosophical significance.

“how can we assume that the laws of nature will not?”

I’m ready to make a wager over the next 12 months. How would we determine if I’ve won or lost? If the sun goes out? If all the earth satellites fly off into space? If electro-magnetic motors stop working? If photo-synthesis stops? If hot things get hotter and cold things get colder? If gasoline fails to explode? Seems like there are a lot of ways I could lose. LOL

“It’s irrational.”

ROTFLOL Look who’s calling something irrational.

“evolution has no reason by which to assume that the Universe will continue to be uniform.”

It would certainly seem to be irrational to base this fundamental scientific assumption on a silly religious book. If we don’t “believe” your book, we are not allowed to use this assumption? LOL

“showing in the next week”

As of May 17, it’s gone and the total revenues for 4 weeks were about 1/2 of what they were hoping for for the opening weekend.

Why, oneinsixbillion, should we assume that yesterday and today will be the same as tomorrow? On what basis if not Genesis?

You cannot say “because it always has”, because that’s circular reasoning. You’d be trying to prove something by using an assumption based on what you’re trying to prove.

You could try to say that it was a property of the Universe– but that’s flawed on a couple of grounds. First, perhaps it is, but that’s not the question. The question is why. Second, the best you could possibly do is to say that the Universe has seemed to be uniform in the past, but that says nothing about the future. Many things about nature change, how can we assume that the laws of nature will not?

So how do you make sense of uniformity? Obviously Creationists have a reason, but all the Evolutionist has is “this is the way that it has always been.” It’s irrational.

In this case, Evolution is actually the anti-science, because science actually is based on a uniformity that is irrational in an Evolutionist worldview because evolution has no reason by which to assume that the Universe will continue to be uniform.

Google “talk origins” and go read the facts.

“scientific that I’ve mentioned”

I don’t think you mentioned anything scientific.

“IF there is a place called hell”

Silly anti-science nonsense.

“then no big deal.”

Yep - I’m just one more out of 6 billion or so.

“That’s a lot of faith in pure chance”

Another typical nonsense statement.

I’m not basing my faith in Christ on the Bible alone, or historical/scientific evidence alone, though these are key factors backed up by significant discoveries in recent years…I know God is real because of what He’s done actively in my life that could not be a matter of chance. I don’t expect you to understand, and fully expect your derisive comebacks…none of that matters to me as much as knowing that you’ve made your choice, and are fiercely guarding your position…seemingly without weighing the evidence on both sides fairly. That’s a lot of faith in pure chance, my friend.

Well, I’m sorry - I do not own a time machine and the currently known laws of physics indicate that creating a time machine would be impossible. So pardon me if I disregard a silly old book of stories. It just doesn’t seem to come up to my standards of “scientific evidence”.

“a copy of Mark Cahill’s book”

No, thanks. My time of this Earth is limited and I do not choose to waste any of it reading this nonsense.

“whether it stands on logical facts or on “religion”.”

I can tell from what you have quoted that it stands on neither. It is obviously true that this Earth is suitable for life and there is life on this Earth. If this Earth were not suitable for life, we would not be wasting energy talking about it. So his “arguments”, like those of The Privileged Planet that Gonzalez wasted his time on (when he should have been doing astronomy in an attempt to gain tenure) mean nothing.

“Consider the incredible evidence for Intelligent Design”

Nonsense. Consider our incredible good fortune to be here at this time instead of two centuries ago or two centuries from now. So what? You can’t look around you and say “I’m so lucky” and claim that proves “intelligent design”. Maybe you’re just lucky. A certain sperm met a certain egg and nothing went too terribly wrong and here you are. And due to modern medicine you lived through that traffic accident or life-threatening disease? So what?

“This delicate and critical ratio is essential to all life forms.”

Oopsie - there were quite a few life forms on this planet before that N/O ratio was achieved. They had to evolve in order to survive. Evolution is obvious.

And there are life forms at the bottom of the sea that live on H2S. The N/O ratio is good for animals, but plants don’t really care all that much. Something about CO2?

“the earth’s magnetic field provides important protection from harmful cosmic radiation.”

Maybe so, but it’s “gone to zero” many times in the past and it’s getting weaker at present, so it’s likely to go to zero in another few thousand years.

“Then there are all the Evolution-defying creatures!”

ROTFLOL You accept such silly creationist lies.

“Bombardier Beetle”

God so loved beetles that he made 100,000 different species of them alone! Well, many of those species will survive long after homo sapiens is extinct (or has evolved into something a lot more intelligent than Ben Stein I hope).

The Bible is the basis of our faith, and it’s overflowing with historically accurate details, details that are are being proven by archaeological finds, fossil records, etc. And yes, passages in scripture unfold scientific details about our universe, details that for many years weren’t “scientifically proven” by the popular science culture…facts about the countless number of stars in the sky, the earth being round and hanging in space, verses comparing the speed of light to radio waves–all of this from a book written 2,000+ years ago. And it’s the only “religious book” claimed to be written by God speaking to men. As many as 24,000 ancient copies of the New Testament have been found…the next closest on record is 643 copies of Homer’s Iliad.

To say science and the Bible don’t mix is a false statement. To say that the fossil record shows evolution as being obviously true is also a false statement. There is nothing obvious about the evidence pointing to evolution.

Consider the incredible evidence for Intelligent Design, taken from Mark Cahill’s book, One Heartbeat Away (and available for free on his website!):

*the earth is positioned at just the right distance from the sun so that we receive exactly the proper amount of heat to support life. The other planets of our solar system are either too close to the sun (too hot) or else too far (too cold) to sustain life.

*any appreciable change in the rate of rotation of the earth would make life impossible. Fore example, if the earth were to rotate at 1/10th its present rate, all plant life would either be burned to a crisp during the day or frozen at night.

*temperature variations are kept within reasonable limits due to the nearly circular orbit of the earth around the sun.

*the moon revolves around the earth at a distance of about 240,000 miles, causing harmless tides on the earth. If the moon were located 1/5th of this distance away, the continents would be completely submerged twice a day!

*The thickness of the earth’s crust and the depth of the oceans appear to be carefully designed. Increases in thickness or depth of only a few feet would so drastically alter the absorption of free oxygen and carbon dioxide that plant and animal life could not exist.

*the earth’s axis is tilted 23 degrees from the perpendicular to the plane of its orbit. This tilting, combined with the earth’s revolution around the sun, causes our seasons, which are absolutely essential for the raising of food supplies.

*the earth’s atmosphere (especially the ozone layer) serves as a protective shield from lethal solar ultraviolet radiation, which would otherwise destroy all life.

*the earth’s atmosphere also serves to protect the earth by burning up approximately twenty million meteors each day that enter it at speeds of about 30 miles per second! Without this crucial protection, the danger to life would be immense.

*the two primary constituents of the earth’s atmosphere are nitrogen (78%)and oxygen (20%). This delicate and critical ratio is essential to all life forms.

*the earth’s magnetic field provides important protection from harmful cosmic radiation.

NASA Astronomers, astrophysicists, Nobel prize winners in the physics arena, Einstein and others have been quoted saying that a universe like ours could not have evolved by chance.

Then there are all the Evolution-defying creatures! There is a series of three DVDs available at Wal-Mart called Creatures that Defy Evolution…amazing creatures like the Bombardier Beetle, the Giraffe, ticks and many more. Their design, what they are capable of points to a designer-Creator. If nothing else, check the Bombardier Beetle out, it’s so amazing that scientists are learning from it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.....170543.htm

I could go on all day about this subject, but if you’re truly interested, get a copy of Mark Cahill’s book, the one I recommended and linked to in the above post. He thoroughly covers any possible argument to Creation/God in a conversational read that is unparalleled. I know you’re sold on evolution, but get the book anyway and test it yourself for whether it stands on logical facts or on “religion”.

No matter what, follow the evidence!